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	<title>Comments on: The Wages of Reductionism</title>
	<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/</link>
	<description>The software industry from a rational perspective</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 17 May 2008 00:35:18 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.2.1</generator>

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		<title>By: allenjs</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-40065</link>
		<author>allenjs</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 02 Nov 2007 04:42:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-40065</guid>
		<description>@royco: Dubya's IQ is public record, and is almost as high as Watson's. I never said he was stupid.  A flaming hypocrite and panderer, maybe.  Unwise, a tenuous maybe.  But not stupid.

I live in America, and we have plenty of kooks in political office here, too.  Blaming DNA is just the excuse du jour.  Not a lot different than blaming skin color.  We used to blame the water, or "something they ate".  It's really not relevant, and in fact misleading, to seek such correlations.  It's easy enough to determine that somone is a kook without having to resort to such superficial or materialistic deceptions.  There is no pedigree, certificate, or prize that can exempt one from being discovered a kook -- something Watson has been forced to realize.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@royco: Dubya&#8217;s IQ is public record, and is almost as high as Watson&#8217;s. I never said he was stupid.  A flaming hypocrite and panderer, maybe.  Unwise, a tenuous maybe.  But not stupid.</p>
<p>I live in America, and we have plenty of kooks in political office here, too.  Blaming DNA is just the excuse du jour.  Not a lot different than blaming skin color.  We used to blame the water, or &#8220;something they ate&#8221;.  It&#8217;s really not relevant, and in fact misleading, to seek such correlations.  It&#8217;s easy enough to determine that somone is a kook without having to resort to such superficial or materialistic deceptions.  There is no pedigree, certificate, or prize that can exempt one from being discovered a kook &#8212; something Watson has been forced to realize.</p>
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		<title>By: Royco</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-39992</link>
		<author>Royco</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 20:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-39992</guid>
		<description>.....take for example if you will South Africa's "Health" minister, a convicted thief who prescribes garlic and beetroot salad to cure AIDS, if you think Dubya is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, he's a fucking Einstein by comparison.
Seriously this is the only part of the planet where the locals could not even build the boats necessary to discover the neighbouring islands, Madagascar, Comoros, Seychelles, etc
...famously the Botswana President Festus Mogae called the bushmen "Stone Age creatures"..
..he's not white, but he's right..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;..take for example if you will South Africa&#8217;s &#8220;Health&#8221; minister, a convicted thief who prescribes garlic and beetroot salad to cure AIDS, if you think Dubya is not the brightest bulb in the chandelier, he&#8217;s a fucking Einstein by comparison.<br />
Seriously this is the only part of the planet where the locals could not even build the boats necessary to discover the neighbouring islands, Madagascar, Comoros, Seychelles, etc<br />
&#8230;famously the Botswana President Festus Mogae called the bushmen &#8220;Stone Age creatures&#8221;..<br />
..he&#8217;s not white, but he&#8217;s right..</p>
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		<title>By: Royco</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-39986</link>
		<author>Royco</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Nov 2007 19:33:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-39986</guid>
		<description>Watson a retard? Do you expect ANYONE to take your rambling illogical paranoid suppositions seriously?
Dude I live in sub-Saharan Africa, you are welcome to visit here, I'll offer you free accomodation, but you had better explain to me why the FUCK there is no intelligent indigenous life here....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Watson a retard? Do you expect ANYONE to take your rambling illogical paranoid suppositions seriously?<br />
Dude I live in sub-Saharan Africa, you are welcome to visit here, I&#8217;ll offer you free accomodation, but you had better explain to me why the FUCK there is no intelligent indigenous life here&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: detroitnb</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-39568</link>
		<author>detroitnb</author>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:19:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-39568</guid>
		<description>intelligence is a culmination of a lifetime. intelligence is a direct relationship to life expectancy. factors that hinders brain functions like disease or accidents may distort this theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>intelligence is a culmination of a lifetime. intelligence is a direct relationship to life expectancy. factors that hinders brain functions like disease or accidents may distort this theory.</p>
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		<title>By: allenjs</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-38008</link>
		<author>allenjs</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 16:17:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-38008</guid>
		<description>@honestas: cute.  I found it at 

http://www.angelfire.com/apes2/rpm/archive/

@roland: I agree.  Watson is "high IQ but not too smart".  He just got fired from all of his posts, and is hedging worse than Imus and Locke.

Regarding IQ increase; what I meant to say is that overall "intelligence" as measured by an IQ test is increasing globally, and the increase may be accelerating.  They re-normalize what "100" is every decade or so.  A 100 IQ today would score higher than 100 on the tests from 50 years ago.  It's fascinating to me that this increase is coupled by an increase in ability to analyze Shakespeare but a decrease in ability to understand or *feel* Shakespeare.  You can find more about rising IQs at:

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.05/flynn.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@honestas: cute.  I found it at </p>
<p><a href="http://www.angelfire.com/apes2/rpm/archive/" rel="nofollow">http://www.angelfire.com/apes2/rpm/archive/</a></p>
<p>@roland: I agree.  Watson is &#8220;high IQ but not too smart&#8221;.  He just got fired from all of his posts, and is hedging worse than Imus and Locke.</p>
<p>Regarding IQ increase; what I meant to say is that overall &#8220;intelligence&#8221; as measured by an IQ test is increasing globally, and the increase may be accelerating.  They re-normalize what &#8220;100&#8243; is every decade or so.  A 100 IQ today would score higher than 100 on the tests from 50 years ago.  It&#8217;s fascinating to me that this increase is coupled by an increase in ability to analyze Shakespeare but a decrease in ability to understand or *feel* Shakespeare.  You can find more about rising IQs at:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.05/flynn.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/13.05/flynn.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Honestas</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37916</link>
		<author>Honestas</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 02:16:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37916</guid>
		<description>Ignore my prior post

Google for "monkey contemplating a human skull"</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ignore my prior post</p>
<p>Google for &#8220;monkey contemplating a human skull&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Honestas</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37913</link>
		<author>Honestas</author>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 02:15:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37913</guid>
		<description>http://library.uwsp.edu/aschmetz/Rheinhold's_Monkey/Bronzes_Monkey_contemplating_humanity.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://library.uwsp.edu/aschmetz/Rheinhold" rel="nofollow">http://library.uwsp.edu/aschmetz/Rheinhold</a>&#8217;s_Monkey/Bronzes_Monkey_contemplating_humanity.htm</p>
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		<title>By: Roland Hesz</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37781</link>
		<author>Roland Hesz</author>
		<pubDate>Fri, 19 Oct 2007 08:20:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37781</guid>
		<description>@allenj: I like philosophy, but was rather suprised to see "Better living through software" and then a rather weird - well, lets say not entirely true - rant on the Dalai-Lama.

But the post was interesting.

However this one sentence I don't really get:
"I don’t dispute that average IQs are increasing"

Compared to?
The IQ as far as I know is not an absolute, but a relative value, with 100 being the exact average.
The only way it could increase is by somehow comparing the IQ100 of today to the IQ100 of say 1967.

But that's just a thought, maybe I misunderstood you, plus I don't really see the point of IQ knowing a lot of "High IQ" but actually not too smart people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@allenj: I like philosophy, but was rather suprised to see &#8220;Better living through software&#8221; and then a rather weird - well, lets say not entirely true - rant on the Dalai-Lama.</p>
<p>But the post was interesting.</p>
<p>However this one sentence I don&#8217;t really get:<br />
&#8220;I don’t dispute that average IQs are increasing&#8221;</p>
<p>Compared to?<br />
The IQ as far as I know is not an absolute, but a relative value, with 100 being the exact average.<br />
The only way it could increase is by somehow comparing the IQ100 of today to the IQ100 of say 1967.</p>
<p>But that&#8217;s just a thought, maybe I misunderstood you, plus I don&#8217;t really see the point of IQ knowing a lot of &#8220;High IQ&#8221; but actually not too smart people.</p>
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		<title>By: allenjs</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37667</link>
		<author>allenjs</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 17:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37667</guid>
		<description>@william. right on about "good thing".

Regarding performers, I deliberately stayed away from the more generic topic of "art" or performance.  

Philosophy and poetry are wholly dependent on language communicated symbolically; and are generally created/composed separately from the performance.  Thus I think it's appropriate to compare these types of "genius" directly with mathematics, rhetoric, and this type of pure "intelligence" measured by standard IQ tests.  This gets exactly to the heart of Watson/Dawkins/Kurzweil/Shockley's philosophy -- they think that world peace will be achieved through eugenically breeding autistic number-crunchers.  Staying strictly within their domain ("intelligence" in creating linguistic compositions that are "true"), it's possible to cast serious doubts on this theory.

Having said that, I think I see a similar pattern in music.  Find the musicians who Watson would consider most "highly evolved" -- the ones with big IQs, white skin, and massive analytical capability.  Aphex Twin, DJ Spooky are examples that come to mind -- but I could name many others.  This music is far more "impressive" and "powerful" than "beautiful".  It is internally looped, angry compressed and buzzing.  A dieselboy rendition is the musical equivalent of a tight and angry mathematical proof or a Joshua Michael Marshall screed.  I happen to enjoy this kind of music, but "music of the spheres" it is not.

But I agree -- music may be the place where the "furious analysts" haven't yet taken over, so it's the last refuge of people who are more intelligent in the old-fashioned sense.

Improv and performance are yet another thing.  Both types of intelligence come together in realtime, and it's sometimes difficult to tell which one is on top.  For example, "working a crowd" can be very willful, manipulative, and active.  Virtuosity can be the result of intense effort over time.  So I don't think that all "great performers" are necessarily genetically endowed as the ancients, and many could well be benefiting from Watson's new type of "passionate intensity".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@william. right on about &#8220;good thing&#8221;.</p>
<p>Regarding performers, I deliberately stayed away from the more generic topic of &#8220;art&#8221; or performance.  </p>
<p>Philosophy and poetry are wholly dependent on language communicated symbolically; and are generally created/composed separately from the performance.  Thus I think it&#8217;s appropriate to compare these types of &#8220;genius&#8221; directly with mathematics, rhetoric, and this type of pure &#8220;intelligence&#8221; measured by standard IQ tests.  This gets exactly to the heart of Watson/Dawkins/Kurzweil/Shockley&#8217;s philosophy &#8212; they think that world peace will be achieved through eugenically breeding autistic number-crunchers.  Staying strictly within their domain (&#8221;intelligence&#8221; in creating linguistic compositions that are &#8220;true&#8221;), it&#8217;s possible to cast serious doubts on this theory.</p>
<p>Having said that, I think I see a similar pattern in music.  Find the musicians who Watson would consider most &#8220;highly evolved&#8221; &#8212; the ones with big IQs, white skin, and massive analytical capability.  Aphex Twin, DJ Spooky are examples that come to mind &#8212; but I could name many others.  This music is far more &#8220;impressive&#8221; and &#8220;powerful&#8221; than &#8220;beautiful&#8221;.  It is internally looped, angry compressed and buzzing.  A dieselboy rendition is the musical equivalent of a tight and angry mathematical proof or a Joshua Michael Marshall screed.  I happen to enjoy this kind of music, but &#8220;music of the spheres&#8221; it is not.</p>
<p>But I agree &#8212; music may be the place where the &#8220;furious analysts&#8221; haven&#8217;t yet taken over, so it&#8217;s the last refuge of people who are more intelligent in the old-fashioned sense.</p>
<p>Improv and performance are yet another thing.  Both types of intelligence come together in realtime, and it&#8217;s sometimes difficult to tell which one is on top.  For example, &#8220;working a crowd&#8221; can be very willful, manipulative, and active.  Virtuosity can be the result of intense effort over time.  So I don&#8217;t think that all &#8220;great performers&#8221; are necessarily genetically endowed as the ancients, and many could well be benefiting from Watson&#8217;s new type of &#8220;passionate intensity&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: allenjs</title>
		<link>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37660</link>
		<author>allenjs</author>
		<pubDate>Thu, 18 Oct 2007 16:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://www.netcrucible.com/blog/2007/10/17/the-wages-of-reductionism/#comment-37660</guid>
		<description>@roland: the very industrial posts go under "life at microsoft" category, which you can subscribe.  That's the category I syndicate up to any MSFT site.  But the philisophical posts are quite relevant to the industry, if you like philosophy.

@chris: true, and darned good.  I guess watson would argue that they aren't genetically advanced enough to be "intelligent" enough to write brittney spears lyrics yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@roland: the very industrial posts go under &#8220;life at microsoft&#8221; category, which you can subscribe.  That&#8217;s the category I syndicate up to any MSFT site.  But the philisophical posts are quite relevant to the industry, if you like philosophy.</p>
<p>@chris: true, and darned good.  I guess watson would argue that they aren&#8217;t genetically advanced enough to be &#8220;intelligent&#8221; enough to write brittney spears lyrics yet.</p>
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